Mead Lover's Digest #1119 3 August 2004
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Iced mead (Phil)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1118, 29 July 2004 ("Michael Kohne")
Re: Interesting name-game, is it legal (Steven Sanders)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1118, 29 July 2004 (Michael Faul)
Re: Iced Mead (Bill Wible)
Name Game ()
Re: "Iced Mead" ("Lane Gray, Czar Castic")
RE: My first batch ("Greg Osenbach")
homebrewer's meeting in orlando (Steven_Butcher@fpl.com)
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Subject: Re: Iced mead
From: Phil
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:01:42 -0700 (PDT)
I Took a mead that I wasn't particularly fond of and
froze it in half (from 5 gallons down to 2.5). While
the frost distillation did take our a lot of the
contaminants, it also took out some of the flavor.
It's smooth, but light. It's not syrupy; I guess this
is because thte mead finished somewhat dry.
In regards to how much alcoholic strength of the
finished product, if you freeze a mead in half, you're
doubling the alcohol in it as you're not taking any
alcohol out of it.
Phil
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1118, 29 July 2004
From: "Michael Kohne"
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:08:21 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Iced Mead
> From: "Douglass Smith"
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:40:22 -0400
>
> Hi all,
> I was reading a page listing some advanced brewing techniques and it
> mentioned something called "icing" where about 2.5 gallons of mead would
> be placed in a bucket, then in a freezer overnight. In the morning, a
> block of ice, consisting of water and contaminants in the mead, would
> float to the top. What remains is a thick, syrupy concentrated mead,
> very clean, with high alcohol content. This can be prepared/bottled as a
> sipping liqueur, or reintroduced into the batch of mead from which it
> was taken. My two questions are this: 1) Has anyone tried this, and if
> so, how did it turn out? And 2) How would one go about determining the
> alcohol content of this? (seeing as removing the water would increase
> both specific gravity and alcohol % per volume). Thanks in advance - -
> Doug -
http://www.fermatorium.com/fermentation/mead/freeze/
I'm no lawyer, but I think this resides well into the gray areas - don't
let the BATF find out, if you are doing it.
- --
Michael Kohne mhkohne@discordia.org
> the result, if there is one, depends on how and how fast you approach zero.
So if you creep up on zero slowly and quietly enough, preferably from
downwind with appropriate camouflage and sufficient firepower, one should
be able to divide by it? - OG and AdB in the Monastery, on dividing by zero
Subject: Re: Interesting name-game, is it legal
From: Steven Sanders
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Interesting name-game, is it legal?
> While I can see how it might be a handy dodge to
> enable shipping mead as gifts
> or to competitions (I recall past discussions of
> this) I am somewhat suprised
> that the gov't would miss such a chance to rip off
> the taxpayers yet again.
>
> Is this actually a valid loophole, or is the guy
> just lucky enough not to have
> been noticed as yet? (BTW, I have been intentionally
> vague on details, and
> intend to continue to be so...)
I think I know this vendor. (Named after a mythical
winged animal?) Or if not, he's a clone of one I know.
We've had issues with him at a festival I'm involved
in. If memory serves from the legal consultation that
was done, it is a valid loophole, but it may not hold
up to any significant pressure.
That doesn't make his 'business' practices any less
irritating or slimey. If he wants to sell mead in
bulk, he should jump through the hoops and get a legal
meadery going.
steven
=====
I'm Steven M. Sanders, and I approved this email.
The 9,573,382th wonder of the world: http://www.studiosputnik.com
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1118, 29 July 2004
From: Michael Faul
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:35:42 -0700
> Subject: Interesting name-game, is it legal?
> From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)"
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:57:40 -0400
>
> I encountered an interesting 'name game' the other day - I was at an event
> with vendors, and one of the vendors was selling "Honey Tincture" in various
> flavours. When I asked what the difference was between a 'Tincture' and a
> 'Mead' the fellow told me that there wasn't any other than in the name.
>
> However he said that there were advantages to playing the name game because
> 'tinctures' were considered to be in the class of herbal medicine, while mead
> is considered to be alcohol. Since herbal medicines are pretty much
> unregulated this gave him considerable advantage. Supposedly by calling it a
> tincture he avoided hassles with UPS and other shippers, both in dealing with
> interstate shipments and the 'over 21' signature requirements. In addition
> (and possibly even more useful) because it was 'medicine' he could sell
> 'tincture' without having to go through all the hoops and headaches of dealing
> with the BBQ boys at BATF! (I don't know just how much he was selling, but
> from the comments he made it sounded like a considerable amount)
>
> While I can see how it might be a handy dodge to enable shipping mead as gifts
> or to competitions (I recall past discussions of this) I am somewhat suprised
> that the gov't would miss such a chance to rip off the taxpayers yet again.
>
> Is this actually a valid loophole, or is the guy just lucky enough not to have
> been noticed as yet? (BTW, I have been intentionally vague on details, and
> intend to continue to be so...)
>
> ------------------------------
This is very illegal and if caught this gentleman will be in serious
trouble.
If it has alcohol in it is regulated by the BATF/TTB UNLESS it is a
bonifide medicine, and then it is regulated by the FDA.
If it is under 7% alcohol the labeling is regulated byt the FDA and if
it is over 7% by the TTB
Either way, wha tthe guy is doing is a felony. If you knowingly purchase
something from someone knowing that you are 'skirting' the law you are
breaking the law too.
There are lots of small wineries (myself included) that could triple or
double our business at least if we were to break the law and ship to
consumers in states where we are not allowed to. Becasue of people like
this 'skirting' the laws, those states that do not allow direct
shipments will continue to use people like this 'honey tincture' guy as
fuel for a fir that is already pretty hot.
If I could ask everyone here to do one thing it would be to write their
state reps and tell them that the ban on direct shipments is only
protecting the large distributor monopolies and is hurting the small
winery businesses.
thanks
Mike Faul
www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com
Subject: Re: Iced Mead
From: Bill Wible
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:43:48 -0400
> My two questions are this: 1) Has anyone tried this,
> and if so, how did it turn out? And 2) How would one
> go about determining the alcohol content of this?
I have never made an iced mead, but I have made
Eisbock, which is a beer that uses the same procedure.
With eisbock, you basically brew a strong dopplebock,
then freeze it to remove a percentage of the water.
The formula to figure the OG is as follows:
Calculate a "concentration factor" as:
C = Volume (start)/Volume (final)
Then use this as a multiplier. Multiply the original
gravity by the concentration factor to determine an
"effective original gravity".
To figure alcohol content, use OG-FG x .1275
To figure the real percentage, use the "effective
original gravity" in place of the one you started with.
Bill
Subject: Name Game
From:
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:27:59 -0500
on 7/29/04 10:34 AM, mead-request@talisman.com at mead-request@talisman.com
wrote:
> Subject: Interesting name-game, is it legal?
> From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)"
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:57:40 -0400
>
> I encountered an interesting 'name game' the other day - I was at an event
> with vendors, and one of the vendors was selling "Honey Tincture" in various
> flavours. When I asked what the difference was between a 'Tincture' and a
> 'Mead' the fellow told me that there wasn't any other than in the name.
>
> However he said that there were advantages to playing the name game because
> 'tinctures' were considered to be in the class of herbal medicine, while mead
> is considered to be alcohol. Since herbal medicines are pretty much
> unregulated this gave him considerable advantage. Supposedly by calling it a
> tincture he avoided hassles with UPS and other shippers, both in dealing with
> interstate shipments and the 'over 21' signature requirements. In addition
> (and possibly even more useful) because it was 'medicine' he could sell
> 'tincture' without having to go through all the hoops and headaches of dealing
> with the BBQ boys at BATF! (I don't know just how much he was selling, but
> from the comments he made it sounded like a considerable amount)
>
> While I can see how it might be a handy dodge to enable shipping mead as gifts
> or to competitions (I recall past discussions of this) I am somewhat suprised
> that the gov't would miss such a chance to rip off the taxpayers yet again.
>
> Is this actually a valid loophole, or is the guy just lucky enough not to have
> been noticed as yet? (BTW, I have been intentionally vague on details, and
> intend to continue to be so...)
I was at a festival last year, and a guy that bills himself as the largest
"Unliscenced Winery in America" was pulling this scam. The fest folks shut
him down, along with nearly everyone else who had a little meade going under
the table.
I met our state excise cop, along with the new fed official in January (the
BATF is no more), and asked them about this little dodge, and they both
agreed that this is not legal.
Actually, there is really no question. Meade is a fermentation of honey,
while a tincture is an acohol based extraction.
While I didn't give the cops this guy's name (he's well known and they
asked), it's only a matter of time before he gets popped. Fairy Whiz,
indeed.
- -zz
Subject: Re: "Iced Mead"
From: "Lane Gray, Czar Castic"
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 05:30:51 -0500
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:34:32 -0600 (MDT), Douglass wrote:
> Subject: Iced Mead
> From: "Douglass Smith"
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:40:22 -0400
>
> Hi all,
> I was reading a page listing some advanced brewing techniques and it
> mentioned something called "icing" where about 2.5 gallons of mead would
> be placed in a bucket, then in a freezer overnight. In the morning, a
> block of ice, consisting of water and contaminants in the mead, would
> float to the top. What remains is a thick, syrupy concentrated mead,
> very clean, with high alcohol content. This can be prepared/bottled as a
> sipping liqueur, or reintroduced into the batch of mead from which it
> was taken. My two questions are this: 1) Has anyone tried this, and if
> so, how did it turn out? And 2) How would one go about determining the
> alcohol content of this? (seeing as removing the water would increase
> both specific gravity and alcohol % per volume). Thanks in advance
> - - Doug -
It also goes by the name of "freeze distillation." In the US (apparently
the ninth amendment wins few arguments with the ATF), it's every bit as
illegal as any other form of alcohol concentration without a distiller's
permit from the ATF. I think it's legal in New Zealand, and I've no idea
about any other countries.
- --
Lane Gray
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Gen
2:25
Subject: RE: My first batch
From: "Greg Osenbach"
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:05:48 -0700
Ok, thanks for the advice! My next question is about water. When
topping off the carboy with water. What is the best water to use?
Bottled? Distilled? Plain tap water? Boiled tap water? Is it best to
add the water cold, hot, or room temperature? Thanks!
Spike
Subject: homebrewer's meeting in orlando
From: Steven_Butcher@fpl.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:53:42 -0400
following is a post made in meadmakers@yahoogroups.com. with the original
authors permission i am sending for post to meadlovers digest. hopefully,
there will be a post before sunday. sorry for the short notice.
steve
Subject:? Yeast experiment
Just wanted to invite any meadmakers in the central Florida area to the
monthly meeting of the Central Florida Homebrew Club this Sunday - 1
August. I was involved in a mead experiment that will be presented at
the meeting. We made a six-gallon batch of mead and split it into six
one-gallon jugs and inoculated each with a different wine yeast. (Red
Star - Montrechet, Flor Sherry and Champagne; Lalvin - ICV D-47,
71B-1122 and EC-1118) We will be serving samples for all to make notes
of the differences each of the yeasts impart to the aroma and taste. I
will publish the results here after the meeting.
CFHB meets at 4:15pm at Rossi's Restaurant, corner of S. Orange
Blossom Trail and Oak Ridge, in Orlando. I know this may be short
notice, but I wanted to let all that are near-by. This may be a chance
for some of us to meet and others to get reacquainted.
On another note, I am close to getting a location for an October
get-together for all local meadmakers. Here we could talk mead, drink
mead, discuss mead, drink mead...... Admission would be a bottle, or
two, of your mead. I would appreciate any comments and suggestions.
Also, a rough estimate of how many of you are interested, would be
helpful.
Howard Curran
Oviedo, FL
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1119
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